Tulpa.info - guide-discussion

oh shid it was approved

2:59 AM

My bad. It's a nice guide, I just recalled it not being there when I made Twi in late 2017 and then seeing you working on it later

3:00 AM

And @Deleted User the main improvements in newer guides have mostly centered around the removal of incorrect or irrelevant ideas

Such as?

"Tulpas go live in wonderland when you're not giving them attention"

Antiquated ideas ≠ wrong ideas

3:03 AM

The general consensus on how tulpa SHOULD work has indeed changed over the years

3:03 AM

But not what can work

3:07 AM

@salad Just out of curiosity, how much of your guide would you change at the whim of others before you said "fuck this is dumb, I'm out"

It depends on whether they can provide reasonable justification for the changes and critiques they put forth

3:08 AM

Anything justified I'd edit, and if it was enough of a single work, then I'd just pull it altogether and redo it

So you'll make edits as long as the suggestions sound right to you. At what point does it become no longer your guide?

When someone else edits it?

3:12 AM

I wouldn't make changes I didn't agree with.

Frankly it sounds like you want some kind of perceived prestige in having an approved guide rather than actually wanting to make a useful resource. I'm not you so I can't know your inner thoughts, but from what I saw on your videos it's just you speaking a script aloud with low-production-quality drawings for the visual content itself. Some people would probably like the narrative assistance the drawings provide, but it's ultimately not very beneficial over just reading what you're speaking aloud. But that's not really my gripe. I watched your videos about a week ago and to me it's just regurgitation.

3:17 AM

I can read about two and a half times faster than you can talk, but even if I did read your script it doesn't have m/any gems.

I write web content for a living. Many people do not have the attention span to sit down and read a long document or forum post about something, even if they are interested in it. You'd be surprised how many people who would otherwise become devoted customers for decades end up clicking away from my clients' pages because they are incomplete or unwieldy. The videos are designed to appeal to people who lack the time or attention span to read through a text-based guide, as well as just generally being a well-rounded and no-BS approach to creating tulpas.

3:21 AM

So, frankly, my career experience holds more weight in my eyes than your anecdotal opinion.

Tulpas aren't a product though. They're a lifelong commitment. If someone can't actually read guides then maybe tulpas aren't for them

At least in my opinion, making a tulpa is a lot lot higher in the grand scheme of things. It's more in-line with having a kid, really. You are right to say " Many people do not have the attention span to sit down and read a long document or forum post about something" but that's their fuck-up, not yours or mine. If you want to encourage people to take the easy path because they have no attention span and have to be hand-held through things.... Well, what the fuck?

Keep in mind that I was the person who started turning the wheels for the GAT to start working again, because I do have a genuine interest in seeing the tulpa community grow and the best way to do that is to start reforming the resources we have available and present to newcomers. Guides like tulpabug's 200 page behemoth have no place being front-and-center over others that have languished for years.

3:24 AM

@Felight No, for real, people who do have dedication often do not have the initial interest or attention span to read through a wall of text or a 15-page guide. You know what they do have the attention span for? A 5-minute video with some guy talking pretty fast.

You wouldn't make five to seven videos (each only a few minutes long) about how to fuck someone and have a baby, would you?

I definitely think that it's better to do thorough research before diving into tulpas (edited)

So what if you're new? What if you've heard a tiny sentence of what a tulpa is from some person or media you're not familiar with? You google the term and find... a 20-page wall of text. Boring. Let's go play some CSGO.

3:26 AM

Initial impressions, guys.

Good! I don't want them to make a tulpa if that's their attitude, guy.

Catching initial interest of an uninvested person can help them become invested

Initial impression is fine as long as it means they're not gonna stop there

What the fuck are you on about? How would they even know what a tulpa is?

Let's not get carried away

You expect everyone to sit down and read through a long guide the first time they hear about this?

If it was up to me, they would. I realize people are still going to create tulpas on a whim, just like people have babies on a whim. I can't change that. But I certainly won't encourage it.

People will do what is natural and if videos are a strong entrypoint to tulpamancy then lots of people will watch them and they will take up tons of views over time.

Only 84.5% of viewers of my "2 minute explanation of what tulpas are" video make it even 10 seconds into the video

3:28 AM

Not even 60% watch the whole thing

But as I said at the outset I don't care that your guide is videos. A video is fine. I care that your guide isn't too great.

40% of the people who watch that lightning-fast intro to tulpas lose interest by the time 90 seconds have elapsed

I can attest to that, I watched a few seconds and closed the video (it wasn't bad but I just didn't have the time to invest)

@Deleted User If you have specific criticisms I'm all ears

3:29 AM

But so far you've attacked either me personally or the format itself

3:29 AM

So I'm losing patience

I haven't attacked you personally

Frankly it sounds like you want some kind of perceived prestige in having an approved guide rather than actually wanting  to make a useful resource.

That's not an attack

If kopase feels attacked then they feel attacked, no sense arguing about it

I agree

3:29 AM

I can't do anything if I hurt their feelings

That's literally an ad hom, mate

3:30 AM

So again, I'm all ears to criticism with justifications and reasoning

I think it's alright if people drop off, tulpas aren't for everybody

I may have rebutted Piano's points but they were well-thought-out and I appreciate the feedback

Better to drop off early than after they already made a sentient person

I think that the ultimate driver for tulpamancy is the "hook" then people who will be interested will seek from that hook into the deeper communities. I think a video makes a good hook, but a bad reference compared to a written guide

If you want my thoughts: your videos suck. They don't have anything to offer over some of the higher-production-value introductory videos that Jade among others made back in the gap. They don't actually offer anything that some hypothetical newcomer couldn't otherwise read in five or ten minutes. If your argument is "people are too lazy to read and then they'll never make tulpas!" then my answer is good.

This is my personal thoughts, but I would tend to want to have a thing I can read and skim and has a good structure for finding information vs a guide that I can miss parts of for something like tulpamancy (edited)

@Felight Well not everyone is going to immediately hear the concept of tulpas and determine that it's anything substantial. Think about the contexts in which people could first see the word tulpa. Creepypasta? Terrible TV shows? Hypno stuff? There are all sorts of places to get just a precursor glimpse of the very idea of what a tulpa is, and most people aren't going to understand that it's something that requires time and involvement. So, they have little initial patience for 20-page guides.

As I asked before: you wouldn't make a short series of videos on how to reproduce with another human, would you?

@Deleted User I have yet to see anything specific, reasoned, or justified

Those are all hooks, strong impactful things that get you really really focused and invested

Anyone who wants to make a tulpa I think should put in substantial time to research

You can see whatever you want guy. I told you that I think your guide is sub-par

Notice the commonalities, esoteric and mysterious

I'm annoyed that our original didn't do that

@Felight But why would they read through a wall of text right away?

I didn't say right away

3:34 AM

I said, if they plan to create one

Asmask you really do come across as dismissive there

Lots of people do not want to give a wall of text their attention. Again, I have to navigate around that problem for a living

You're comparing tulpamancy to marketing

Also >referencing jade as a good source for intro material There is literally nobody better to ask why that's a bad idea than yours truly

3:36 AM

@Felight But the same concept still applies - getting people interested and getting past their initial disinterest

At least it looked like Jade tried .-.

3:36 AM

The best part is that I fundamentally agree with you, Kopase

~~Yeah, she was trying alright. Trying to get her cult up and running~~

People aren't going to make tulpas so much if they stare down a wall of text, and I think that's a really good thing.

In all honesty, .... cults are formed with good intentions and they probably were following that path.... but they probably weren't necessarily trying to start a cult.

You really are a brick wall aren't you

I remember you saying that stuff wasn't true, though ofc I could be remembering that wrong

If they don't have the discipline to spend a few minutes to read something, notwithstanding the hours/days/weeks that they should put in, they can go play CSGO

@Felight OK so basically the tldr is that things got way overblown but there was some genuine malicious in what Jade was doing. After her exile she then did far worse outside of tulpa communities

The videos weren't the best and in general I think people should avoid video submissions for guides unless their script has already been peer-reviewed

It would be different if your videos had something new and helpful in them but they don't - they're pretty strictly regurgitation

People will do what they do, you can't really control them or hide things from them. If kopase wants to make videos to appeal to the average person, that's on them, and if people find those videos and get interested when they otherwise would not have, I think that is a good thing.

that way the GAT can actually ask for changes without it requiring them to re-voice, re-edit, and re-upload a video

The idea is that it is regurgitation in an easily digestable format

3:38 AM

And most all guides are regurgitation

@Deleted User The whole fucking point is that they're simple and lack random irrelevant crap. The whole point of these videos is that they remove ineffective forcing techniques that impede progress.

Oh so you get to decide for the newcomers which techniques are ineffective, right?

Newcomers can choose to go to other places if they want

Every guide tells you to talk to your tulpa. That's really all there is to it, at a basic level

I do disagree with you there, I think there is a lot going on that isn't accounted for in the majority of advice, and these failings lead to most of the issues people have making tulpa.

3:40 AM

But that's not necessarily appropriate to discuss at the moment

@Reguile Here's a paragraph from a guide that is currently on the "approved" list on .info

Create a backstory and simulate a life for when they're not with you.
Instead of your tupper always being present, give them a backstory that fits in with reality, a real-life accommodation, job, friends, etc. Visualise them living that life. Whenever you want to speak to them, you have to call each other or physically meet up. If you're willing to experiment, that is.

If you can agree that making a tulpa is similarly life-altering to having a child, then you can see the problem here pretty clearly. I find it appalling I have to point this out again, but you wouldn't say "The Super Compact 5 Minute Video Guide to Making a Baby," would you?

3:42 AM

The problem is in premise

It isn't a bad guide, it can work for a lot of people. However, I think guides like this are similar to a guide where an artist tells you to draw pictures a lot and you'll eventually get good at drawing pictures

Why are you so obsessed with the notion of sex

"literally an ad hom"

It's literally a concept that can be explained in ten seconds yes\